finetype: Can someone explain (1) how aquabot works/what is going on? (2) what is the state of that top left white group? I'm baffled at it being left alone, is it just accepted that it's dead? A16 looks so important to me, I feel pretty dumb right now because I'm clearly missing something huge.
finetype: how much time is on their clock? Is there any way to know?
];W[qo];B[me]C[
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S_Alexander: no idea either
];W[ij];B[hi]C[
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BHydden: I'm guessing top left is worst case scenario either seki or ko, and probably white doesn't have time to come back and live outright in gote
S_Alexander: poor redmond
bgauch: it looks like redmond got a lot on the left side, and he has komi. I wouldnt count him out yet :)
barelydan: it's alive
barelydan: well some thousand year ko thing?
BHydden: lots
BHydden: they started with 3 hrs each and the game has only been going for an hour
];W[np];B[po]C[
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jillgoodgal: hah I called that R5 move a while ago!
go for the gun: why o4 over p4?
AquaBot: w WINRATE 40
S_Alexander: not bad yet
liminal: The bottom left is not yet explored, or even touched by black. I suspect the o4 move is a nod to the idea that victory for white will be found in the lower left.
go for the gun: i guess since there is still so much space on the bottom and right the looseness of o4 is not necessarily damaging
savanni.dgerinel: I also feel like O4 will block black's entry into the lower left. At P4, black could simply stretch at P3, and then it's harder to contain.
jillgoodgal: R6 now
liminal: Because pincering at m4 for black would be a "bad idea" but o3 is still "attacking" the bottom right.
](;W[pn];B[oo]C[
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jillgoodgal: or next to it
];W[qp]C[
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liminal: I don't think so.
liminal: More likely to go under.
MeiGuoTang: I dont redmond has good winning record against the older pros, that were prominent in back in their time
liminal: That last variation seems more in line with what White would want.
](;B[oq];W[qq];B[kq]C[
-- chat --
go for the gun: black will pincer o4
];W[nm]C[
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go for the gun: to attack bottom
jillgoodgal: pincer anyway
](;B[no];W[lp]C[
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S_Alexander: redmond won last game against otake with black by 1.5
S_Alexander: in 2016-ish i think
MeiGuoTang: ....
MeiGuoTang: liminal
MeiGuoTang: there was no influence
MeiGuoTang: no
MeiGuoTang: that corner would be to big
MeiGuoTang: no
go for the gun: white doesnt really have the corner yet
MeiGuoTang: white currently has 9 points at s4
go for the gun: sorry, i thought you were talking about bottom left corner
AlexanderKratz: doesnt h14 cut white?
MeiGuoTang: what are you saying?
AquaBot: Optimal gameplay from here https://i.imgur.com/gnzp3ZX.jpg
bgauch: liminal I think you got the coordinates wrong
](;B[lq](;W[qj];B[cq];W[cp];B[dq];W[eq];B[er]C[
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go for the gun: that is assuming a lot
];W[fr];B[fq]C[
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S_Alexander: jesus they're suddenly fast
AquaBot: W loist 5 percentage points by playing E3 instead of F3
];W[ep];B[gr];W[dr];B[fs];W[cr];B[ie]C[
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bgauch: S_Alexander I think it is popular new-ish 3-3 invasion joseki, so they both played it fast
bgauch: yes, I keep having to refresh the page for some reason
jillgoodgal: definitely reminds me of my games, no place to develop
MeiGuoTang: when you click a varation that continues the line it disrupts "the main" for you and you only
liminal: reloading...
liminal: Okay, sorry for the confusion.
bgauch: I like this position for white, looks like a lot of potential on the right of the center now. :)
S_Alexander: redmond likes influence
jillgoodgal: lots of space but lots of black lines can enter
MeiGuoTang: k15 is worth 20 points
](;B[ne];W[oe];B[qi];W[rj](;B[mh]C[
-- chat --
bgauch: black stones can invade from around M14 but I would not be worried about an invasion from P5 or R12 stones here, I dont think they can come in to the center
MeiGuoTang: I wouldnt play it right now
MeiGuoTang: but worth keeping in mind
MeiGuoTang: its gote for both players
];W[mg]C[
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S_Alexander: redmond is good at endgame
S_Alexander: can he overcome disadvantage there?
MeiGuoTang: if otake is comfortable I doubt it
AquaBot: B winrate 67 here
](;B[mm]C[
-- chat --
MeiGuoTang: "best" move
MeiGuoTang: im pretty sure a move at q8 would lose white the game
bgauch: I would play N8 on instinct here; but perhaps redmond has plans for his aji at M4 and O4
AquaBot: N8 N6 are ok moves but M13 bet move
AquaBot: Yeah M13
bgauch: I havent read out the important fight over K15, but perhaps M13 helps with that? hmm
MeiGuoTang: no it doesnt
jillgoodgal: oops I was accidently on a varition sorry
S_Alexander: hmmm, thinking
bgauch: thanks for the variation MeiGuoTang. white does look very dead; I suppose the meaning of M13 is just to hold on to more of the center, and probably kill the one black stone.
MeiGuoTang: I dont think redmond will play m13
AquaBot: I dont think so either
jillgoodgal: you think N6?
Wong Kar-Wai: Lunch?
bgauch: N8 seems simpler and is the move I would play, but N6 looks pro to a weak player like me - it looks like it is doing something with the aji but I cant quite see where it leads. If Redmond is spending all this time thinking, maybe it is about N6.
jillgoodgal: certainly seems nice to have that 13 line
jillgoodgal: with the M13 play
bgauch: why would anyone play M16 and not K15?
MeiGuoTang: I thought m16 as a sac
MeiGuoTang: but black doesnt need to capture to connect
MeiGuoTang: so yes it is bad
bgauch: well, at least M16 would be sente, right? So in one my games, that would be a "small" mistake compared to my other ones :)
gemm: so what should w play?
bgauch: gemm AI says M13, but N6 and N8 are also good
bgauch: or "OK" at least
jillgoodgal: I am betting on N6
gemm: yeah I looked at the variations
carrootjazz: is this game live now?
AquaBot: I did variations for all N6, N8 and M13
gemm: still unconfortable to play m13
gemm: yes I saw them Aqua
AquaBot: Here is a cool move...
carrootjazz: live or kifu ??
jillgoodgal: live relay
S_Alexander: i think they're on break now and will continue on 30 minutes
carrootjazz: thx @jillgoodgal
jillgoodgal: no 2 liberties to 1
jillgoodgal: in the last variation
jillgoodgal: presumably Michael needs to set up some ko battles for endgame?
MeiGuoTang: out side seems more important I would think
omeara: Is the actual game on Move 125? i'm a bit confused with the variations coming off the main line
MeiGuoTang: omeara
MeiGuoTang: click sync
MeiGuoTang: thats the game line
omeara: haha thank you
MeiGuoTang: pet hasnt added any varations
MeiGuoTang: you did
S_Alexander: also reload the page if you want
bgauch: where is "sync"? The pop-out menu on the right side? I dont see the option. Sorry if I'm just blind.
jillgoodgal: if you don't see the synch button you are synched most likely
omeara: It seems "sync" appears only if you've strayed away from the main game
jillgoodgal: N6 is still my bet yes
bgauch: ah, perhaps I am already synced then. Thanks.
bgauch: in this variation, white loses most of the center-right area he tried to build up, but gets more influence in the area around J7. Still, black has so much of the sides, with white almost all in the center, I would be nervous.
bgauch: It looks to me like the top-right corner is either ko or seki. If black plays locally first (at A16), he can make it seki. If white plays in the top right first, it is a ko. If anyone in the chat is better at life and death (i.e., above 10k) correct me if I am wrong. :)
C[Shuwa became the leading player in the mid-19th century after the previous Honinbo Jowa retired.
Genan was a strong player of that time who had previously tried to take Honinbo Jowa down from his post as Meijin (leader of the Go community and recognized to be the strongest player).
Genan's playing style was often brilliant and exciting, but he failed to beat the Honinbos Jowa, Shuwa, and Shusaku in the most important games of his career. This game from 1842 is the second of a three game challenge match in which Genan hoped to show his ability to beat Shuwa with White (no komi), but lost all three games, after which the match was discontinued. ]
MU[0];B[qd];W[oc];B[ec];W[pf]LB[ec:A]
C[The Taisha at White 4 was a move that Genan liked to play. The joseki is well known to be complicated, and Genan had some special variations of his own. Indeed, he caught Shusaku once with a new variation to get a distinct advantage, but could not take it to a win after Shusaku played the ear-reddening move in one of the most famous games of Go history.
In this game Shuwa was ready for the Taisha joseki, as we see he has played in the UL corner at A, which will be well placed when the usual fighting joseki happens in the UR corner (var for White 6). ]
;B[od]
(;W[nd]
C[Genan did not play the fighting variation here (see var). ];B[oe];W[pc]
(;B[qe]TR[of]
C[Black's bamboo joint was the standard move when the ladder favors White (see var). Playing Black 9 at the marked point is a modern variation of this joseki that was not yet played in the 19th century.]
C[White 16 threatens the invasion at A, and prepares to build a moyo on the upper side. ]
;B[of];W[gc]
(;B[fc]
C[Black 19 was not an expected move (see var). Honinbo Shuwa seemed to have a strategy of simplifying the game at the cost of giving up some of his original advantage (Black with no komi), and quite often his games with Black would seem to be about even after the opening. However, he was extremely good at converting the smallest advantage into a win in the middle to endgame. ]
;W[gd];B[ee];W[do]LB[cp:A]
C[With Black's solid group in the upper right, I agree that the LL corner seems to be bigger than the LR corner. I would have played a lower point, maybe at A. ]
(;B[cj]
C[Human pros did not like Black 23, and it was completely off the map when Zen analyzed the game. Zen suggested an invasion to the upper side (see var). ]
;W[di]LB[dq:A][qq:B]
C[I imagine AlphaGo would give White a thumbs-up for this shoulder hit, if only it could. While corner plays such as A or B are surely candidates in this board position, it seems clear that White 24 is the best move for the left side.]
;B[ci];W[dh];B[cm];W[fe]TR[ce]LB[qp:A]
C[White is willing to sac the two marked stones, and is trying to link up onthe outside and expand the moyo on the upper side.]
;B[ef];W[ff];B[eg]
(;W[fg]
C[With 32 Genan seemed to get a bit carried away, and I would call this an overplay. There was an easier way to connect on the outside (see var). ]
C[The fight now favors Black, and I will blame White's overplay at A for this. ]
;W[dl]LB[fg:A]
C[My guess is that this clamp is the move that Genan had in mind when he played the forceful sequence starting with A. ]
(;B[ek]
C[Connecting beneath would have been weak (see var), and naturally Black pushes through. ]
;W[fj];B[gi];W[dd];B[dc];W[ck]
(;B[el]
C[With 47 Black could not cut on the third line (see var). ];W[bk];B[ch]
(;W[cg]TR[dj][bk]LB[dg:A]
C[Covering here is a local sacrifice that gives White time to save the two marked groups. If White had pushed through at A, Black could have captured one or the other (see var). ]
;B[dg];W[fl]LB[gj:A]
C[White 52 was the good shape move, the alternative being to simply push out at A. ]
(;B[fk]LB[em:A]
C[If Black had simply extended at A, that would give White a chance to win the semeai on the left (see var). ]
;W[gj];B[bg];W[cf];B[ed]LB[ed:A][bf:B][hi:C]
C[With A, Black wins the semeai while eliminating any possibility for White to play a forcing move from the center. For example, if Black had played at B, White would have been able to force with C. ]
;W[dm]TR[bk]
C[White saves the marked stones.];B[em];W[dn];B[gl];W[hj];B[hi];W[ij];B[il]
(;W[jf]
C[White's weak group in the center combined with White's loosely surrounded moyo on top gives White a thin shape overall. On the left, a cut on the second line might seem to have potential, but Black can win the semeai (see var). ]
;B[jh]LB[jg:A]
C[This knight's move from a living group is slack, but there is some merit in keeping the game simple when Black is already ahead. Pros analyzing the game have hesitated to call this move a mistake because we know that Shuwa had an almost perfect record for using such moves to maintain a small lead. I would have played at A without thinking twice, and Zen tells me that my move is better. ]
;W[kj];B[gn]LB[gn:A]
C[While Black A is indeed a vital point in Black's shape, agian I get the feeling that Shuwa is saying that he is confident of a win. ]
;W[oi]LB[ph:A][qh:B]
C[With this capping move Genan is trying to reinforce the center while putting pressure on Black's right side. Zen suggests White A, Black B, and the playing away to one of the corners on the lower side. ]
;B[hg]LB[ie:A]
C[Another tight move, but this is big with the extra value of Black A next. ]
;W[qj];B[rj]
(;W[qh]
C[Throughout the years, this move has been critisized as an overplay, and the computer analysis seems to agree (see var). ]
;B[pj];W[pi];B[qk];W[ri]
C[White has challenged Black to a ko, when it seems that Black should be able to manufacture some ko threats on the upper side to have an advantage. The way Shuwa does this is instructive. ]
;B[ie]LB[rh:A]
C[If Black had immediately cut at A to start a huge ko, chances are that White would have ignored any ko threats towards the upper side. Therefore, Shuwa lets the right side wait, attacking the upper side first. ]
;W[if];B[hf]
(;W[jd]
C[Cutting was dangerous (see var). ];B[hd];W[hc];B[me]TR[od][qd]LB[rh:A]
C[Black is hoping to make some forceful ko threats on the upper side, also looking for a way to strengthen the marked group. The ko at A is still waiting to happen. ]
(;W[lf]
C[White pulls back to keep the pressure on Black's group on the right. The variation shows how it would have been easier for Black if White had simply pushed through. ]
;B[ne];W[md];B[le];W[kd];B[kf]
C[By cutting White off, Black weakens White's shape in the center and increases the number of ko threats for Black on the upper side. ]
C[From the start, White was counting on these ko threats on the left, but there will not be enough of them now that Black has plenty on the upper side. Maybe White can try to kill Black in the upper right without a ko? No, it would end badly (see var). ]
C[This is a point where Black could have won the semeai on the left by playing at A, but took this chance to ignore White's ko threat. Not to resolve the ko just yet, because Black still has plenty of ko threats, and attacks in the center first. ]
;W[qj];B[lb];W[mc];B[qi];W[ag]
C[The left side is now a step ko that favors White locally, but it will take two more moves for White to completely resolve this ko. Black's plan will be to obtain an advantage on the rest of the board while White must spend two moves on the left. ]
C[Finally the ko ends. The marked White group is not alive yet. ];W[oj];B[ok]
;W[mk];B[pq];W[jj]LB[jj:A]
C[White's connection at A has always been a mystery to me, to the extent that I have asked if it was a mistake in the game record. Other commentators have similarly failed to find a reason for this move, and I am relieved to be able to say that the computer does not show it as a candidate. ]
C[Not to forget that White had this ko to deal with at A. Otherwise, Black could have made a one-step approach ko by playing at B. Could White have invaded at C first? I would like to, and after erasing the lower side White would ahve an advantage in territory, but the ko would be very dangerous. ]
;B[gp];W[nk]LB[nk:A]
C[White A is a point where Black could have played to attack White's eye space in the center. While it was not immediately necessary, it was a large move that takes away Black's threats and reduces Black's potential on the right side. ]
;B[mn]LB[lo:A]
C[Could it be that Shuwa was a bit greedy here? Black is winning, and I would have been happy to play the more conservative A, but maybe that's just because I've seen this game and I know what happens next. ]
;W[gq];B[fq];W[hp];B[hq];W[mq];B[nq];W[lp]
(;B[gr]
C[What a patient and quiet move! I would want to cut again, of course (see var). ]
;W[nr];B[np];W[kq]LB[mr:A][lr:B][lm:C]
C[If Black cuts at A, White offers to play a ko with B. White doesn't have enough ko threats elsewhere, but could use local ko threats such as C for this ko. ]
;B[or]
C[Black declines to play the ko. ];W[lr];B[jr];W[ln];B[lm];W[jq];B[pk];W[nm]
C[Shuwa offers no resistance, allowing White to live without even a ko. However, when Black plays at A, it suddenly appears that Black has not lost anything. Black's territory just switched from the lower side to the right. Failing to find anything better for either side, I will say that the sequence from White's invasion at B ended in an even result. ]
;W[on];B[pn];W[bc]LB[cc:A][ai:B][ad:C]
C[By exchanging this move for Black A before finishing the ko with White B, White created a big move at C, gaining some points in the corner. ]
(;B[cc];W[ai]LB[bc:A][cc:B][ad:C]
C[The exchange of A for B was a cleverly timed exchange that set up the connection at C and made the game very close. ]
;B[ir];W[kr];B[cr];W[ad];B[bb];W[br];B[dr];W[ab]
C[Yet another ko starts. Since the life of Black's group is at stake, and White's potential local loss is small, Black will seek a peaceful ending here. ]
C[It has been suggested that Genan misread the tsumego in the lower right. However, if one assumes he just played the biggest move at A (maybe with some optional one point forcing moves first), the game would have ended with Shuwa winning by one point. Having already had the experience of losing to Shuwa by the smallest margin, maybe Genan chose to avoid that and take the more exciting ending. ]
C[Having lost five points in the LR corner, Genan will lose by six points now. He decided not to finish the tsumego, so I will do it for him in a var. ]
C[The result is recorded as Black winning by six points, when White can win the final ko to get a 5 point difference. Black A (253) should have been played at B to get the correct result, and I think this could be a mistake in the game record. ]
C[Some extra moves have been added to simplify this for my explanation. This is called the bent four in the corner, and White has no viable local moves, but it is not a seki. Afterfilling all outside liberties, Black can play A, the B, and after White takes the four stones it will be a ko in which Black takes first. Since Black can choose the timing of this ko, this shape is ruled dead in Japan. ]
C[If Black answers White A at B, the cut at C gives White's marked group an extra liberty and makes the threatened step ko more distant. As this var shows, White can even win the semeai without a ko. ]
C[Pulling back at A was the normal move for White, and White has succeeded in reinforcing the center while pushing Black down to the second line. I think Black still has a slight lead with Black B next. ]
C[When Black extends at A, White can win the semeai with B. Actually, this is not bad for Black, but it does not seem to be Shuwa's style to give White territory on the left when he can win the semai as in the game sequence. ]
C[If White pushes through at A, Black can crawl once and simply connect at B. After White plays C, Black can capture the other side group with D as shown, so the two points were miai to give Black a win. ]
))
(;B[cl];W[bk];B[el];W[ch]LB[cl:A]
C[Cutting at A is bad when the ladder favors White. ]))
(;B[ck];W[ek]LB[dl:A][ck:B]
C[The exchange of A for B was a big kikashi for White, and White has an advantage. ]
))
(;W[dd];B[dc];W[gh]LB[ed:A]
C[Since White is threatening to cut Black off at A, Black cannot break through in the center. This board position is close to even, without needing any komi.]
))
(;B[ke];W[kc];B[me];W[md];B[ne]LB[ke:A][me:B]
C[When Black invades at A, White will have trouble attacking because of the weakness at B. Black can play B immediately as shown, or play away after the original exchange, which is a kikashi for Black. ]
))
(;B[fd];W[gd];B[fe];W[ge];B[ff];W[hg]LB[fd:A]
C[Black A was the natural looking move. While White gets a nice moyo on the upper side, Black still has a distinct advantage when there is no komi. ]
))
(;B[qc];W[pd];B[pe];W[qe]LB[of:A]
C[When the ladder at A favors White, this is generally considered to be bad for Black. ]
C[This variation shows a basic variation of the Taisha joseki. Black A is well placed in relation to the Black group on the upper side, and this board position is good for Black.
A major diverging point in this joseki was White's connection at B, where White could have pushed at C or extended at D, with a multitude of complicated variations following. ]